Facebook is akin to an internet landfill, for sure. The little bastard is damn rich though, since we were discussing where the money was.

They are, but they are few and far in between. There is a larger volume of enterprise opportunities. While they do pay less, but they aren't among the ranks of being an astronaut. Theres been about 300 astronauts since NASA was founded, there haven't been all that many more (probably a lot less in fact) web entrepreneurs who made it near as rich as facebooks owner.

But hey, if I can get a multi-billion dollar deal for a PHP site, you better believe I will forget all about MS. Who knows what I would do with all that, it probably wouldnt be on the internet at all though. [end tangent]

Now for something I am sure we can agree on. I would rather program whatever language Google uses and work for them than any "better" language. But here comes the astronaut and the "I didn't got to MIT" issues.

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

I went to MIT. Took a few pictures, and came home.

You have experience with ASP.NET, no? Or just other MS enterprise products? I haven't used ASP since years ago so I have absolutely no background with it, and I'm just curious about it's strengths/weaknesses vs PHP, personal and professional opinions. How is it as far as OOP goes?
-m

I have more experience with ASP since that is what out system is made in (crappy, I know, our last programmer was a moron). I am relitavely new to ASP.net, but I like it more than PHP for these reasons:
-Speed: Most of the time, the code is pre-compiled into MSIL code. So it runs at a far lower level than PHP so you gain speed.
-Power: You can use VB, C#, C++, and a number of other languages. I prefer c# since VB is a basic language and C++ is harder to work with (you have to compile every time). They are almost identical to being used outside of a web environment. The .net framework makes a lot of things easier.
-Code Separation: Using code behind (a built in feature with VS 2005+), you can separate the core logic from the code without using a templating engine.

Now, for what I don't like about it in comparison to PHP:
-Complication: PHP is a lot like C++ but far simpler. You are either stuck with a basic language, C#, or C++. C# and C++ being rather hard to work with. Visual Studio is also harder to use (but more capable than most IDE's). It can also be annoying compiling your DLLs to put on the web
-Learning curve: It is different than PHP, its hard to explain. It has a learning curve to get the hang of things. It did for me anyway and I pick up on most languages in a few minutes.

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

When you mention using C, do you mean that you can switch back and forth at the code level, or is it like PHP where if you were so inclined you could write additional extensions to the compiler itself?

Looking up a little of this 'code behind' stuff that ASP implements, it sounds almost like they're building ASP up to natively handle MVC style patterns. Am I reading that right?
-m

I'm not sure what you men by that. I've never looked into using more than one language. I think you can as long as they are separate.

Something like that. The .aspx page has a tag that the engine read stating where its codebehind file is. It then gets the code
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I'm still somewhat of a novice in asp.net, so I cant answer all your questions. I got the job because I have connections in the company.

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

I tried learning ASP.NET and I hated it, PHP is a much better language and just because it is easier to use doesn't mean that it is a lesser language when compared to ASP.NET. Sure ASP.NET may be good for some things like working with C# and other non-web languages but I have no need to work with C# I'm just out to build great, functional websites.

ASP.NET has the obvious limitation of that you have to be running IIS to use it, I just like Apache a lot more.

VBulletin was built with PHP for a reason.

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Easier to learn does not mean better. I addressed many points on why I like ASP.net better.

I like IIS a lot more, that is a complete matter of opinion.

Thats not an argument for PHP, its just a fact about vB. It was built in PHP because it is the most widely used and they didn't want to require a Microsoft system. It doesnt mean it is better, it just means it has more wide us. Arguing that PHP must be a good language because of that is a bandwagon fallacy.

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

Any .NET language is compiled into MSIL or bytecount / machine code, which is much lower level and faster for the machine to execute. PHP is also another type of language as its interpreted, not a language compiled into machine code first and then executed, it has to be interpreted on every request (assuming you don't have any optimizer) which isn't a fast task compared to a .NET language.

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I didn't say easier was better, I said that because PHP is easier doesn't mean PHP is a lesser language.

PHP has a strong following for some good reasons and being windows independent is one of them. Because you have to be on windows to use ASP.NET means you have to pay more for hosting. Most websites don't need that little bit of enhanced performance that ASP.NET provides, so if it takes twice as long to code that guestbook/website/forum and costs twice as much to host with ASP.NET than it would have with PHP you more than likely waisted your time and money.

Btw someone should add ASP.NET to the poll list, that or change ASP to ASP.NET. Because - as we all know - ASP is not the same as ASP.NET!

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Most enterprise companies have multiple dedicated servers, it is not too much more expensive at that level. Enterprise is the area I am saying Microsoft technologies are better on.

Under exaggeration, the performance boost is more than a little.

Over exaggeration, I cant imagine it takes twice as long. Plus, you save money when you need support on the language that PHP just doesn't offer. This is yet again something you need in enterprise development.

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

This does not say that PHP is better because it is easier! It does say that PHP is better but not because it is easier. How many times do I have to say this...

Maybe on a very large scale, but it isn't enough to be even noticeable on most websites.

What kind of support are we talking about here? If I recall correctly more developers use PHP...

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Dunno if it's any good but PHP's parent company Zend does offer support - for a fee of course.

Which is why I say that Microsoft languages are better for enterprise business, read my posts and you will see me say that PHP is better for small time solutions.

Real support, not going on to a forum and hoping for the best. I explained the support in previous posts.

Hmm, never looked into them, but I highly doubt they come close to Microsoft's support. It's also worth adding that Microsoft supports all their solutions from IIS to SQL database. Zend doesn't appear to

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There are two ways to write bug-free code, only the third one works.

The bigger PHP gets, the more it will need that corporate solution to bring it to the big time. It could very easily be used, I believe, in any application that ASP.NET could be - it's biggest hurdle is that you don't have to spend money to use it, ironically. A large business is going to go where they can spend money, simply because a lot of heads think that the amount of money you spend is directly relational to the quality of product you receive, which is only true some of the time. This is one (of the various) reason(s) why Microsoft still retains a large amount of control. A CEO who knows nothing of the technology he is using will almost definitely go where somebody else in a similar suit is going to give him help.

So while PHP can stand up to a lot of it's competition, in many ways probably far surpass it, it will not become as big as it can be without that kind of a background becoming a reality first. Sounds like a fairly good business plan for anybody with the money to invest, actually - the number of jobs, despite this weakness, IS growing. Rapidly. In Vegas if you look at any technology related employment advertisement, PHP programmers are being asked for about 5-1 against the ASP programmers. Nearly the same in Denver where I'm moving.
-m