saw this and though i would put in my 2 cents, since i know a couple of these languages.

-PHP is purely web based. i would never run it on any software other then web software, and if it doesnt get a great deal better at its built in security it will soon be replaced by coldfusion of ruby.

-Python, its purely a glue language get some data from one program massage it send it to another. It cant add worth a crap, and i personally think that really hurts it, but its a pretty user friendly language.

-Perl, never touched it but have only heard good things.

-ASP very little experience here but it seems to be just another version of php. without all the support.

-Java great language for offline software, even though it has the power to run online applications they are terrible and slow. Really nice that its platform independent and has the potential to be a winner, if they can speed it up a little.

-Ruby, havent touched it.

-Lisp, this is my bet at a language taking off in the near future. Great for AI, and since AI is a newish and very quickly growing area i think it will become very popular. but to my knowledge its needs another language such as C/C++ or java for more interactivity, but there is probably a way i just havent figured it out yet.

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I disagree strongly with Lisp being the language of the future, especially in terms of web based stuff. AI has been around donkey years, Alan Turing anybody? Father of the computer and the turing test.

A language no-one's considered but growing in user-base and power is adobe's actionscript, version 3 is a very real progamming language, and as the future appears to be heading in the mobile direction with rich media interaction, seem's like a real contender for when browser vendors add support.

I usualy stay out of these types of threads as in my experiance they just turn into arguments but I'm going to put my neck on the line here and say that whilst PHP is the most popular scripting language for the web at the moment (just look at sitepoint forums, programmingtlak forums, hotscript.com, etc) I believe that Microsoft will be making a huge push for ASP in 2008 which will see it claw away a little bit of the market share

Alan

Doubt it, asp.net is going to be their main focus.

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ASP.Net is what I meant

Alan

I use lisp at university and its been around for ages its been around since 1958, but it ain't used as much, because of its hard to understand its a functional Language and the style of it can be hard to understand.

I would say prolog is a good one for the future its easier to understand and its only been around since 1972, but LISP allows for the program to learn and add to itself.

And i remember the turing test and the Chinese room which is a theory against the turing test and program intelligence. I had to write alot of assignments on them.

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PHP all the way, Havn't been working with any of the others really

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I wish that php would go somewhere in the direction of C++ as programming habits (more OOP, more type-hinting, etc').

but.. it seems that no-body in PHP want people to write "int/char/string" in theyre code.

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מטבחים (hebrew)

I've worked in PHP for 5 years now, and tried Python and Ruby (in RoR).
For now I'm pleased with the currenty PHP development plan, can't wait PHP 5.3 to use namespaces (adding a new dimension to your OOP), also plan on using built in PDO.
Python for me is a secondary language - not for web development (tried Django) but for mini applications that I can code - personal use or for some clients.
Like it's code writting style. and thats about it.

Ruby - nice language, cute code writting but it is used in ROR - and I don't like to be bordered with frameworks limits. Yeah you want to develop quickly, but the whole scaffold thing - I don't like it. I want have whole control over my code, even the database interface.

But I've gone in another way here - frameworks.

So - short and sweet - I've started with PHP and I'm looking forward to the functions that it brings. :)

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Back from sysadmins to the programmers.

C++ Hands won with the future.

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It depends on what you are trying to accomplish to decide if PHP is even the right type of language to use..

And if you are looking for a future in web development to keep up with times, PHP is a web developers' basic 'must' in their toolbox usually, but then it definitely helps to have some other trendy/commercial languages under your belt too.

Thats why, Right now (at least), I think the way to go would be to familiarize yourself with ASP.Net/C# and RoR/Ruby, then there is JSP/Java as well, all great combinations if you're interested in $$$$

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It looks like the concensous is that PHP is the way forward, I am glad I have learned it rather than other languages, there tends to be a lot of jobs out there that use asp, but I cant see why a company would use asp over php with the cost and functionality difference.

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I have started using asp.net recently and its a huge difference some of the extremely time consuming tasks are made simple and some of the extremely easy tasks are made hard. I think in a couple years asp.net will be good but for now I just want to throw it away and never look at it again. But like I said in the future it will be great once they get it working better.

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Earlier this year I would not be writing this, but my experience in a large business environment has really opened my eyes to enterprise development.

PHP is a junk application, it is a resource hog and maintained by volunteers (experienced, but volunteers non the less). It does not come with any real support, blogs and forums are your only option if you have an issue, you are on your own if you discover a bug in the language.

While many of Microsoft's solutions leave something to be desired, their business solutions are simply amazing. IIS is a great server platform and SQL server is excelent. While classic ASP is not as good as PHP due to its age, ASP.net is a great language. Microsoft solutions also come with support and the enormous MSDN database that documents the language extensively and has a huge array of common problems and issues. Microsoft has the majority of the enterprise web sector for a reason. While *NIX solutions are much cheaper, they just don't come as good as Microsoft's systems. For example, say a company is looking to use Visual Studio Test Edition for their testing, Microsoft will send out a representative to your office to show you it and pitch a better sale than buying it online (bargains). Microsft even sells solutions where you can call them with questions about things (eg. how would I do this with asp.net) and they will do what they can to answer it. You just dont get this with *NIX services. The catch is Microsoft is not cheap, their prices take them out of range of the majority of personal users. Their market is business and that is what they stick to.

Lastly, Probably 90% of PHP programmers are just amatures who took on the cheapest option they could find. That was my case. Their reputation in the real business world is very low. Due to this fact, PHP programmers are worth a lot less than programmers who work in Microsoft languages.

Many of the people who say PHP is the best out of the bunch have probably never worked in a larger business environment. This was my case at the time I casted my vote for PHP.

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While IIS may be a good system, which I can't attest to, having no experience with it, it's still reduced to the reliability of the platform on which it runs. Nix has historically, and probably always will be more reliable - a system running nix does not need to be rebooted as often as Windows, if at all (which again has been proven time and time again, there are people that have had nix boxes up for periods of well over a year or more without turning it off).

Microsoft is out to make money, and granted that may mean that they provide better support, but it's the money they're after. Open source, albeit chock full of amateurs (due to it's availability, of course), has always been about the software. I personally tend to trust somebody who is in it for the game, and not for the money.

I'm not saying all Microsoft is bad. I use it on a daily basis. But just because they have market clout and agents to run around and run spin control doesn't make them the king.
-m

I dont know about the rebooting thing, but anyone that can run a *NIX box for a year w/o one re-boot is probably running such a light load Windows would work just as well. I also disagree that *NIX is more reliable. IIS7 is possibly the most reliable platform on the market. And keep in mind IIS does not generally run on XP, it runes on Microsoft Server.

Do you stay away from banks because they are for profit? Would you rather buy a car made by unpaid people or professionals who are in it for the money? Being in it for gain adds credibility because they have something to bargain against (quality against price). Free software is generally made without support and the company can just disappear over night, leaving your business left with an unsupported solution.

I do not doubt the majority of open source programmers are good hearted and do care for what they do. Being in it for money accomplishes the same ends, but with more reliability.

First off, your wording makes that message one of the most bias statements I have heard in a long time. Those reps show what the software does to make sure you are making an informed decision before spending thousands of dollars. They also train you in how to use it. Are you saying just because they offer better services they aren't better?

Don't get me wrong, PHP is good for small sites with little to no budget or operations that do not need support (forums for example). But when you are a business that needs a reliable service (and can pay for it), Microsoft is where you turn.

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Nope. I'll try and find some of the information on it, but they weren't running light loads on it at all. I may be wrong about a lot, but one thing I know from when I was heavy into Linux is that *Nix, can, and always will outrun an MS Box, period. This will remain debatable until I turn up some information (or run my own tests for a couple years haha), so we may have to agree to disagree.

Touche, however there is no such thing as an open source bank, and were there, I probably would deal with them because I am rather sick of every bank I've ever dealt with - the money it costs just to spend money is outrageous and I've had to deal with some rather large screw ups with money that I've kept in a bank, so again, if I had the option, I would deal with somebody else (which is why most of my money is in a safe in my office).

Again, no contest. I am biased, and while that may not come from the same experience as you, or somebody elses, I do have years upon years of experience using both systems in various situations. It's an opinion, and it's one I will defend.

Have you ever met anybody that works for them though? My best friends brother-in-law does, and that dude is brain washed when it comes to software. Severely brainwashed. He was impressed by some software my friend was running to them Windows. Until he found out MS put out competitive software and literally went off the hook on us because the software we were running was in direct violation of some MS crap... 'stolen' as he put it, even though we tried to point out to him that our software came out before MS's version. The dude was wacky. I wouldn't want somebody like him coming and trying to sell me software, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt if there was something for half the price, that ran three times better, he'd try and tell me the sky was purple.
-m

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. But can we agree on these two things:
1. Microsoft has the majority of the enterprise business market.
2. There is more money in being a MS language programmer.

I don't personally know anyone who has worked for Microsoft. But most of my knowledge of MS software comes from my boss (personal friend) and co-worker. My boss has been a managing consultant for a fortune 500 consulting company (forgot the name, but they where the biggest in the business before they went down) and Allstate. He was considered to lead the Orbitz team earlier this year. My co-worker currently contracts with a number of really large Chicago based businesses, he used to work for Comcast. They are both really experienced.

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Like facebook, photobucket, wikipedia, sourceforge, digg, and so on.

There is more money in MS, no doubt about that. I can live comfortably doing what I do however, so I'll be the amateur that holds up the open source flag, and let all those who wish to go other ways, go their way.

-Wiki and sourceforge are both with an open source mentality, so they want to stay away from MS.
-Facebook is as slow as they come, I would not include them in an argument for large scale PHP.
-Youtube is made in a variety of different languages if I recall
-What makes you think photobucket is made in php? I could find no evidence to state so.

There is a difference between sites like that (which are web only) and enterprise businesses that major in real life things and only have a web development department. These internet only sites don't need the support that MS offers because they have enough developers to make low level changes. On the other hand, there are large scale companies (Nasdaq as one of them) who are based away from web development but have a department to handle it. They would rather leave certain things to a company rather than making their web developers sort them out. It is a much better solution for non-web only companies, which is the vast majority of large companies.

The thing that separates these web only sites and most enterprise businesses is that large companies handle complicated tasks at high volume while many internet only sites handle relatively simple tasks at a higher volume (with exceptions such as facebook which is slow). I'm also willing to bet that a lot of the sites complex functions are written in C/++ and implemented in PHP.


Woa now, I am just in this for money; MS solutions are more lucrative. Keep in mind that I do not carry an open source mentality, I do web dev to put food on the table and I will do an MS language if it means more money. If large companies went back to CGI, I would be there.

I guess, but the topic was about comparing PHP.

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