[Village Idiot]

dschreck, it seems that you have me corrected.

Originally Posted by hello-world

I started learning php some months ago.After reading you post I think I wasted my precious time. So ASP.net better than php ?

It would be nothing short of ignorant for me to say that PHP is a waste of your time, or that ASP.net is flat out better. I do like .net a lot more, but PHP is a great language.

[dschreck]

Originally Posted by Tanax

You didn't waste your time.
Not alot of sites has 1million hits per day, and none of the sites that anyone here on this forum will produce won't have half that.

Zynga.com - top right corner: 8million daily active users. So, you're incorrect.

[Brook]

Originally Posted by hello-world

where is joomla ?

I've never seen a large (or very large) site use it - from what I hear it is a slug.

[Krik]

I started learning php some months ago.After reading you post I think I wasted my precious time. So ASP.net better than php ?

It definitely is not a waste of time.

I started on PHP years ago have picked up Javascript then LUA and have tampered with C and assembly. PHP is were I got my start and as it is 100% free to learn it (which beats most other languages that need to be compiled). And that will allow you to use it as a big stepping stone into many other languages.

dschreck's post is on the money. Having worked with linux it gives you some options you may not have with a windows server. And I am confident PHP can go head to head with ASP. After all that is what they designed it for.

But the point on how many of us will ever build a site that serves millions is a good one. I have done a site that came close to the 10K mark and that was an intense project not sure I would even want to be involved on anything much bigger (too many cooks in the kitchen).

Now to the issue of frameworks. I must admit I have never used one. Of course every name mentioned so far I have downloaded tried for various things and basically at the end of the day I always found I need something custom made and hated having to modify someone elses code. So I usually build every thing from scratch. Well if you don't count the copying and pasting from some other past project.

If you use a framework makes sure it has all you need or there is mod for it to get you what you need because if you have to change even the slightest thing it could take days just to track down were the exact lines of code are you need to change.

[kp52]

Getting back to the original post, I suggest MODx (http://modxcms.com) is well worth a look. It's a very flexible framework ideally suited to those who don't mind moulding their own PHP solutions within a solid framework. The support from developers in the forum (http://modxcms.com/forums) is fantastic.

[Brook]

I've looked at modx - it's actually quite a nice cms, haven't really looked into it as a framework tho.

But the point on how many of us will ever build a site that serves millions is a good one

The site I want to convert is already serving millions of pages a month, however at present I use a hacked vBulletin to power it.

It's possible for everyone to get a busy site - it just takes a bit of time and dedication, that site is my hobby, although now takes up so much of my time! lol

[Krik]

The site I want to convert is already serving millions of pages a month, however at present I use a hacked vBulletin to power it.

I would say get some advertising and employ a development team.

Of course 1 million pages a month is 5500 visitors a day viewing 5 to 6 pages each. And if it is some kind of a community site (forum blogs ect) visitors will visit a higher number of pages meaning the number of visitors you get is less per day.

But definitely you could make some advertising money with it. And then pay a small team to make what you need.

[webid]

For a large community? Yii (v1.04 is out on april 5th or close, check svn).

[ETbyrne]

For a large community? Yii (v1.04 is out on april 5th or close, check svn).

Yipes! I was looking at the documentation for Yii and it's just scary how complicated they made it. The darn thing has a command line installer!

[Brook]

Kohana is another to consider, the folks behind the GALLERY app are using it for Gallery3. It was originally a fork of CI, and is PHP5 only.

[ETbyrne]

I don't mean to be so brutal on judging frameworks other than my own, but I find it odd that Kohana uses at least a couple CMSs to power its site. Kinda like saying "Use our framework, even though we don't"

[webid]

Originally Posted by ETbyrne

Yipes! I was looking at the documentation for Yii and it's just scary how complicated they made it. The darn thing has a command line installer!

really? i tried several MVC frameworks over the years... and always stuck to my own 'homegrown' code... Yii changed that... so easy, so simple, flexible...

The command line tool and the ease to configure and extend, it is a major plus. Take a closer look :) btw, it's not an installer :)

[ETbyrne]

really? i tried several MVC frameworks over the years... and always stuck to my own 'homegrown' code... Yii changed that... so easy, so simple, flexible...

Perhaps this is a sign that I have grown far to fond of Dingo, everything else looks so convoluted to me now... Except for CI of coarse

[webid]

Originally Posted by ETbyrne

Perhaps this is a sign that I have grown far to fond of Dingo, everything else looks so convoluted to me now... Except for CI of coarse

---

if you think CI is simple... you really must try YII. Convention over configuration.

[Tanax]

Originally Posted by dschreck

Zynga.com - top right corner: 8million daily active users. So, you're incorrect.

So it says. I can create a website that says 60million daily active users.

Also, if you read what I wrote, I said: none of the sites that anyone here PRODUCE, not: none of the sites that anyone here HELPED PRODUCE. Did you code that whole site by yourself?!
Don't think so. More likely is that you work there along with others. But I'm just assuming, I can't really know.

However that text that you got is just a text, it isn't really saying anything to me, except that you can write HTML code which is.. good for you .

Regarding the topic, I've been into codeigniter a bit. Maybe not the best from any of you more knowledgable programmers. I found it however, to fit my needs quite well.
I would've picked Zend, but that just didn't work for me

[ETbyrne]

I tried Zend once too, it wasn't until I discovered Cake PHP that I really got into PHP frameworks. After running into some stupid issues with that, I quickly switched over to CI. Then I ran into the issue of making extensions for CI, so now I just use Dingo.

[Enfernikus]

I find that if you want to serve large websites more oft then not Frameworks simply hold TOO much of what you don't need, TOO little of what you do need, and everything in between is nearly unchangeable without breaking a dependent library. So my advice is to build your own system of doing things, not necessarily a framework but simply a way of going about things which you can easily understand and document.

On a side note, if you are HEAVILY acquainted with a framework, that you may use that framework so long as your mastery of it is such that you can alter the internals of said framework comfortably.

[Salathe]

Originally Posted by ETbyrne

I don't mean to be so brutal on judging frameworks other than my own, but I find it odd that Kohana uses at least a couple CMSs to power its site. Kinda like saying "Use our framework, even though we don't"

Kohana proves its worth not by it's public face but by developers downloading it and building their own apps. If you're one to judge a book by its cover, than perhaps Kohana isn't for you!

The Kohana website uses itself for the main site, DokuWiki for the docs, Wordpress for the tutorials (it used to be non-official, hosted and run by a community member), Vanilla for the forum, Redmine for the projects directory, Trac for main version control and Github for latest development (unless I'm mistaken on any point). To me that says that the Kohana team would rather just Get Things Done than re-implement tried and tested systems based on their framework. That is after all what it is, just a framework.

I don't think you're being brutal at all, just perhaps a little blinkered.

[webid]

I use ZF classes with Yii, pretty easily, and some users are already porting Kohana modules and helpers to Yii (Yii's creator is also Prado's creator).

ETbyrne: i'm going to check Dingo, thanks for the tip :)

[ETbyrne]

I don't think you're being brutal at all, just perhaps a little blinkered.

Well, I'm not sure what "blinkered" means, but you are probably right!

ETbyrne: i'm going to check Dingo, thanks for the tip :)

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