Do you consider php to be programming?
 

A guy asked me this. :P

Yes I do.
It contains variables, and logical expressions. Programming.

However, HTML and CSS is not programming. It's coding, but not programming.
Actually, I would even understand if some people would call it designing, because that's basicly what you do. But I think it's a little farfetched, so I'm calling it coding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming

So yes, basically.

odd question... If PHP is not programming, then what is?

>>>However, HTML and CSS is not programming. It's coding, but not programming.

What variance between coding and programming?

Coding, contains code. Not neccessarily programming code, just code.
In this case, HTML is a markup code. CSS is a stylesheet code.

Programming, is more of a.. program. Like I said, it has to have variables, logical expressions(if, foreach, etc). It's more of a .. dynamic coding language, which makes it programming.

This is probably nothing that wikipedia or w.e says. This is just for me. Because HTML and CSS is NOT the same as JS, PHP, Java, C++, etc. And I want to differ them, so I call HTML and CSS coding, and the rest that meets the criteria for programming, programming.

(you are ofcourse free to call it w.e you want)

But here's something for you people who don't think like me:
Think about bbcode, it handles the [b] = <strong>, and such. Basicly, HTML. Have you ever heard someone refer to it as bbprogramming? No! Because it's not programming, it's code.

This guy was saying it's scripting not programming, but scripting is completely relevant to programming. I'm thinking he might of trolled me, but I was just double checking with others. xD

Technically:
No, I consider it scripting. PHP is an interpreted language, programming languages are compiled.

Normally:
Yes.

But php scripts are compiled on runtime, so isn't that kinda debunked.

PHP is interpreted, not compiled.

2Tanax

ок

In russian language work with HTML, CSS == "make up"
and
"coding" === programming

I somewhat agree with village idiot. I consider PHP to be a scripting languages (a powerfull one at that) and you could create programs out of it. It just means what your definition for a program is.

This is how I think about it: I have an application. This application has a program in it. This program runs and gives you your desired results.

So when I create an desktop application I use c#/vb to create a program for it.

When I create a web application I use asp.net/php to create the program for it.

ASP.NET follows this kindof. In asp.net you can create an web application which needs to be compiled before throwing it on the server. For example if you have classes and you upload the .cs class, effects won't actually take place unless you compile it first (either locally or on the server).

About HTML and css, I am not sure where I stand on this. I usually just call them coding but they could also fall in the category of "scripting"

ASP.net and PHP are completely different. PHP is interpreted, meaning it never becomes a binary file to run, the interpreter interprets and runs what the script tells it to. ASP.net uses languages like VB or C# which get compiled into DLL's (binary files) and implimented. These files are already in code that the OS directly understands. ASP.net is a programming language that can easily be used on the web.

In case it still doesnt make sense, here is how each works
Scripting (PHP, ASP, ect): The commands you write are processed by the language processor at runtime and get interpreted to the machine commands as it goes. It never becomes an exe or dll or anything like that. Every time the script is called it re-interprets it (although cacheing can occur).

Programming (C#, C++, ect.): You write the code and put it though a compiler that breaks it down to machine code and leaves you with a ready to go binary file. That is it, the computer can simply run that because it is a binary.

I primarily code in .net so I know the difference however I was just stating a point.

I know that php is interpreted, but the way I've gotten accustomed to it that you can write programs in web development (ie, php). Although its scripting, you are writing a program. A program is a set of instructions. Those instructions can be interpreted or compiled. Eventually, every program must be translated into a machine language that the computer can understand. This translation is performed by compilers, interpreters, and assemblers.

I am not arguing here, but I am just saying while php is a scripting language (like i mentioned in my previous post), it could be considered a programming language. Infact all scripting languages can be considered programming languages.



Forgot to mention that .net also uses interpreting. So while it gets compiled into MSIL, it is still interpreted. So you wouldnt call c# a scripting language now would you

so again, like I said, PHP is a scripting language because of the reason you specified, however it COULD be considered a programming language, depending on how you define a program.

Here's how I see things, though feel free to disagree most profusely.

PHP is a scripting language. The scripts control a piece of software (the PHP engine) rather than being standalone and independent from any other application.

PHP is a programming language. Scripting languages are programming languages (in the sense that whales are mammals, but not all mammals are whales), the latter being "artificial language[s] designed to express computations that can be performed by a machine, particularly a computer." (Wikipedia)

HTML is a markup language giving structural or presentational (no semantic markup rants please) instructions to text.

CSS is a stylesheet language giving instructions for the presentation of documents written using a markup language (e.g. HTML).

Also, the term "scripting" has been used by some with a negative connotation and as something inferior to "real" programming. Boo to them! :-P

Ahh great Salathe is with us all. :-D

Bang on target as usual Salathe:-D

Like I have said previously, programming is the art of writing a set of instructions that the computer will then follow, simple as. As a result its totally irrelevant whether a language is interpreted or compiled.

Fell free to disagree.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3A+program

Maybe people say it's scripting not programming to give it more the feel of not programming a "Real" language. :P

No, scripting and computer programming languages are very different from each other. The way you go about programming in them is completely different, so are the tasks they complete efficiently.

Scripting is ideal for most web development tasks and it is 10 times faster to write (lets not forget no annoying compiling). The debugging is also less time since stuff like memory is managed (although many computer programming languages do that too). You design scripts to do a task then quit in a timely manor.

Computer programs are much faster since they are pre-compiled and more powerful since they work closer to the machine. However, computer programs take longer to write and debug, making these advantaged null for most web development tasks. Computer programs are designed to do tasks but they generally continue to exist and accept input.

in my perspective anything that is given computer commands to , to either do something or act a certain way is a programming language.
for all those people who say php is a scripting language etc etc..
scripting doesnt mean anything its aka word is programming

so hence

html,css, php their all programming

no matter how their written.

to a person who does not know about computers to their eyes your programming.

there has been this whole scripting versus programming war for ages.

when i used to program in visualbasic people would say its not programming, c++ is programming

just because something compiles doesnt mean its programming

when you have to type code into something to do something for you you are programming. what happends to the code afterwards is something else.

so php for me is a programming langauge.

I've been writing html and css for many years, and I certainly do not consider that to be programming, and neither do any professional web designers either.

PHP, on the other hand, is programming.