^ it's alright... i agree with you for the most part - but some frameworks just make life easier in the long run... Prado is a good example - not sure how to explain it - it's just REALLY good Framework if you play with it... but yeah - much like Dreamweaver - it doesn't help newbies out too much.

Al - def. take a look... they're trying to show that PHP can take on languages such as Java and .NET with those kinds of projects - and doing a d@mn good job :)