yea thanks your correct Salathe i overlooked that, infact i didnt think it through properly (as i previously said) tend to loose track of index offsets for some reason, i guess my brain just brushes it aside as a minor inconvience. Still it begs the question why is an undefined offset a warning and not a fatal in php? im sure most other languages generate a compile error (or is that writing past the end of an array, bah)

and i havnt personally used the shuffle() function before i havnt really had mush need for shuffling an array before so it hasnt come to my attention yet, so there isnt any 'harm' in it in fact its probably quicker (as its a language function therefore written and compiled in C and doesn't need to go through the interpreter)

bah i should actually be working right now, so i guess ill get on with it before i get sacked.

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mysql> SELECT * FROM `users` WHERE `users`.`clue` > 0;
Empty set (0.00 sec)